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Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Martijn,
I'll give it to a copy shop to make a most brilliant print as possible, to get it more exact.
For my first evalutation and to be true I would set the crossing of the Mercury line with the life line at around 56 (I'm shure we could find some significant correlations on base of his birth chart). First of all I would set this as a "naturally critical point".
Around 50 we find a black/dark point beside (outside) his life line and there seems to be a little break or changing of the direction shortly before. - For that I need a better print copy.
The "hard/firm" and prominent Mercury mount and the upper part of Pluto mount (I remeber our controverse, but let me call it here so) seem to me nealy most significant, because of beeing very unusually, like the second head line.
Together with the Mercury finger it makes a very hard, not really vital or living and more mechanical or to be like made of steal impression.
Manfred
Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 11:39 am by Manfred
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happyman
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So can we conclude that the point where the mercury line crosses/touches lifeline , signals death or a major health mishap ?
Or is it because michael had in addition the black dot/mole on his life line corresonding to the age of his death, which substantiates the death ?
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Manfred wrote: Dear Martijn,
I'll give it to a copy shop to make a most brilliant print as possible, to get it more exact.
For my first evalutation and to be true I would set the crossing of the Mercury line with the life line at around 56 (I'm shure we could find some significant correlations on base of his birth chart). First of all I would set this as a "naturally critical point".
Around 50 we find a black/dark point beside (outside) his life line and there seems to be a little break or changing of the direction shortly before. - For that I need a better print copy.
The "hard/firm" and prominent Mercury mount and the upper part of Pluto mount (I remeber our controverse, but let me call it here so) seem to me nealy most significant, because of beeing very unusually, like the second head line.
Together with the Mercury finger it makes a very hard, not really vital or living and more mechanical or to be like made of steal impression.
Manfred
Hi Manfred,
Regarding the 'black/dark point' ... I would like to notice here that the color of this hand cast does not reflect the color of Michael Jackson's hand (though I could confirm your observation as a potential irregularity in his hand).
And especially because it is a hand 'cast' (which may include some "unnatural" errors that may not be related to Michael's hand at all), and we're so far not able to study it with a close-up ... I am not sure all that we should take that point as seriously as you just described).
And I also would like to make some reservations regarding what you described as the 'steal impression' - it may be the result of the strong lights that were obviously pointed at the 'wax cast' (we can see the lightbulp reflected in the white background).
Though I think one needs a larger sample of hand which have this characteristic in order to 'test' Cheiro's hypothesis. Nevertheless, I think Michael Jackson's right hand (cast) is indeed an interesting example to consider when studying Cheiro's 'dramatic theory' (about when the mercurius line goes into the life line).
Manfred, yesterday I found another photo of the same hand (with also has the same 'black/dark point' that you spotted very well).
:thumbup
____________________
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happyman
New Community Member
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Appreciate your reply, Martijn.
And how about the passion line seen in the wax cast ? Or did I get it wrong ?
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Den
Registered Member
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 Did you guys notice the development in the mount of the 'moon-walk' ?
Michael Jackson coverage has invaded our forum now too...no escape from the king of pop. I think Michael has some intriguing hand shape, doesn't seem to match the body. Even the picture of him as a young singer, he has that elongated palm area that looks strange to me...looks very feminine to me also, like a female athelete.
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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happyman wrote: Appreciate your reply, Martijn.
And how about the passion line seen in the wax cast ? Or did I get it wrong ?
Yes indeed, I agree: Michael's hand cast shows a very clear 'passion line'!
:thumbup
As a matter of fact I already introduced Michael's hand cast in our earlier discussion about the 'passion line', at:
http://internationalcollegeofpalmistry.com/forum/forum126/2449-3.html
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
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Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Martijn,
as you may think, from the sight of an rational scientist I had the most of your objections selfcritically before I wrote my interpretation, too.
But it depents on the kind of reading and what the hand speaks to us or me. - I know this is not a good description, but regularly the feedback of my clients confirm me in this technique.
From this point of view I would nevertheless take some attention on that mark I mentioned, as a kind of omen.
With the Mercury part I had the same doubts than you in one way, but though I would stay to what I wrote, because on the quality of shape of the percussion, mount and Mercury finger. I trust I would find it confirm in reallity .
Additionally: The black spot on the Mercury line I would bring together with serious liver problems, specially in connection with blood or may be a disposoiton for liver cancer, but for this we would need a better photo and some correspondence signs in the hand.
Manfred
Last edited on Tue Jul 7th, 2009 02:39 pm by Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Den wrote: Did you guys notice the development in the mount of the 'moon-walk' ?
Michael Jackson coverage has invaded our forum now too...no escape from the king of pop. I think Michael has some intriguing hand shape, doesn't seem to match the body. Even the picture of him as a young singer, he has that elongated palm area that looks strange to me...looks very feminine to me also, like a female athelete.
:thumbup
Hello Den!!
Yes, his 'moon-walk' is pretty good ... and his strong 'mount of moon' as well!
Regarding your observation about Michael's hand shape, recently we had a discussion...
(Source: http://internationalcollegeofpalmistry.com/forum/forum142/4449-2.html - thanks again Lynn!!)
... which resulted in the following criteria for an average palm:
5 - Finger length compared to palm length: the average is about 80%.
6 - Finger length compared to palm width: the average is about 98%;
7 - Palm length compared to palm widh: the average is about 122%.
Let's take a look at some "ratios" that can be measured from the photo below:
On my computer screen I measured the following seizes:
- Michael's finger length: 3.45 cm;
- Michael's palm length: 4.85 cm;
- Michael's palm width: 3.75 cm;
From these seize we find the following "ratios":
Ad 5) Michael's finger length compared to palm length = 71.1% (average=0.80%) => Michael has short fingers compared to palm length;
Ad 6) Michael's finger length compared to palm width = 92.0% (average=98%) => Michael has short fingers compared to palm width;
Ad 7) Michael's palm length compared to palm width = 129,3% (average=122%) => Michael has a long palm compared to palm width;
Conclusion:
Michael Jackson's hand shape could likely be described as: short fingers with long palm length ...
... but without a comparison with his body length it's very hard to say if his palm width is normal(?), narrow (?), or ... maybe a bit wide (?).
PS. Looking at the relative seizes of his hand ratios ... his palm is likely a bit 'wide' - if me measurements are representative (which can be questioned, for I did those measurement from 1 photo only ... ?).
 ... Den, how does this all sound to you???
(I think his relatively long palm does match with his body, and his short fingers relate to his 'spontaneous' behavior)
Anyway, thanks for bringing up this aspect ...
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Pamelah Landers
Professional Hand Analyst
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By the way, Den, most people who succeed in the music business or acting business have "fluffy" Venus mounts - or big or thick - which ever word works for you. In Michael's case, his lush moon mount also indicates strong creative imagination and intuition capabilities.
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Lynn
Professional Hand Analyst
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In the 5-element system it's a fire hand. (rectangular palm, short fingers)
although the cast appears more fire/earth because of the palm width.
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Den
Registered Member
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I kind of see both fire and air energy depending on the angle and position. Would be easy to see him as a combination of both...a more calculated, intellectual high-energy which he exhibited in many ways.
The whole world has listened to many interviews of Jackson this week, the most memorable thing I remember was that he talked about being an absolute perfectionist in everything that he did professionally, and I thought that was a revealing character quality of the super-achievers. Lots of idealism in his persona in many ways from his performances all the way to his Peter Pan mentality. He was a complex character.
-Den
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happyman
New Community Member
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Concerning the mercury line cutting/touching lifeline ,
In the pics for points 1 and 2 ,
which can be considered as "the mercury line crossing /touching the life line" which indicates illness or danger to life ?
I hope I haven't made the stuff confusing !!!
Attachment: P1020473.JPG (Downloaded 281 times)
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happyman
New Community Member
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The question I want to ask is even when the mercury line is made of fragments , and if some of the fragment/s happen to touch the life line, still it be considered as showing illness or only one long complete mercury line starting form the mercury mount and touching/crossing life line is necessary ? (like in Micheal's palm ? )
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Hello HappyMan,
Your question is off topic - for your question is not directly related to Michael Jackson's hands.
So, would please re-publish your question in a new (or other) discussion?
PS. From my point of view, 'point 1' in your picture is not related to the Mercurius line - that line ends below the heart line (and I would describe it as a variant of the "Via Lascivia").
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Lynn wrote: In the 5-element system it's a fire hand. (rectangular palm, short fingers)
although the cast appears more fire/earth because of the palm width.
Hi Lynn,
I think your first description ('fire hand' because of the 'rectangular palm, short fingers') makes sense.
By the way, in the perspective of the 'hand shape' we better ignore the photo of the hand cast for the following reason:
In my analysis of Jackson's hand shape, I decided to ignore the hand cast for I think we can not measure the hand ratios from that picture because obviously that photo was not taken from the front - and as a consequence the fingers in the hand cast look much shorter than they really are.
In the picture below the finger length compared to palm length: the average is about 60% ... much smaller than th 71.1% that I found from the photo with the 'black dot'.
PS. By the way, the 60% is UN-NATURALLY small compared to the average of 80% that we found in our earlier discussion!!! (So again, my advice would be to ignore the hand cast for describing Michael Jackson's hand shape ... I hope this makes sense!?)
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
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rain
Registered Member
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Den wrote:
The whole world has listened to many interviews of Jackson this week, the most memorable thing I remember was that he talked about being an absolute perfectionist in everything that he did professionally, and I thought that was a revealing character quality of the super-achievers.
He was a complex character.
Michael Jackson is credited for creating a revolution in the music industry for his music videos. He is the one who gave music videos a complete different meaning and look all together.
Most of his music videos are like small mini movie projects of 5 minutes or so. He wanted to show what his song actually meant and looked like in video formats (e.g Thriller, Beat It, Billie Jean, Bad, Smooth Criminal, The way you make me feel, Leave me alone ............ etc). Watching his song videos tell how much of a perfectionist he was which other artists soon started to follow him.
Last edited on Wed Jul 8th, 2009 03:07 pm by rain
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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:thumbup
Yes Prem, you're right ... but Michael was lucky, the video 'can you feel it' - by the Jackson 5 is known as the first 'modern' video clip in history!
Michael is also considered by many people as the 'best performer' ever on planet earth!
(I think his strong ring finger & strong sun line ... + strong mount of Venus & strong mount of Moon, appears to be an interesting constellation in the perspective that he was a 'successful performer')
Last edited on Wed Jul 8th, 2009 03:37 pm by hand_research
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Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
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rain
Registered Member
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Martijn,
Ah Haa !!!!!!!! really missed posting the link of this song in the list I created earlier. I grew up listening to this song "Can you feel it" and today I am actually seeing this video for the first time and its really 
Oh my god ! its been long time I listened to MJ's songs. Here is the link for you all to watch this particular song video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1fXL3s7bk
:thanx a lot for reminding me of this, one nice song which I completly forgot about.
Also noticed that sprinkling of Gold Dust he repeated it again in the starting of song "Remember The Time" where he tries to entertain the Queen.
Michael Jackson you are a THRILLER ----- R.I.P
Prem.
Last edited on Wed Jul 8th, 2009 04:40 pm by rain
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Pamelah Landers
Professional Hand Analyst
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Den wrote: I kind of see both fire and air energy depending on the angle and position. Would be easy to see him as a combination of both...a more calculated, intellectual high-energy which he exhibited in many ways.
The whole world has listened to many interviews of Jackson this week, the most memorable thing I remember was that he talked about being an absolute perfectionist in everything that he did professionally, and I thought that was a revealing character quality of the super-achievers. Lots of idealism in his persona in many ways from his performances all the way to his Peter Pan mentality. He was a complex character.
-Den
pefectionism is also the student path of Apollo which would make total sense since Apollo is about creatively expressing oneself. And the master path is excellence where the student path is perfection - not the same thing and the perfection chasing can lead to self-criticism and self-rejection which is also student path Apollo.
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Lynn
Professional Hand Analyst
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Pamelah said I think his hand shape is mostly air
Den said I kind of see both fire and air energy
His fingers aren't long enough to be air shape hands, but I can see air energy too, for example the knotted knuckles are ruled by air. His double air (head) lines (or even looks like triple on the cast?), his numerous fine lines - all air element stuff. Top phalanges on the cast look stunted though. ah, I just noticed Martijn's post that confirms that the fingers in the hand cast look much shorter than they really are. 
(edit) - tho Martijn you said the hand cast photo is not taken from the front, the one you posted on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 06:32 pm (UK time) looks from the front? that's the one where I took hand width and also fingers look too short?
Den, when you said that his hands didn't seem to fit his body - I kinda know what you mean, I think his hands do not fit the persona that the media portrayed, I'd expected the palms to be narrower - fire/water hands.
Last edited on Wed Jul 8th, 2009 11:31 pm by Lynn
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Lynn
Professional Hand Analyst
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Prem, thanks for posting link to "Can you feel it" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1fXL3s7bk
I don't remember ever seeing this video before. I watched the Michael Jackson memorial on TV yesterday and still I can hardly believe that he is gone. :-(
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rain
Registered Member
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Lynn wrote: I read something about a debt of $620 million :surprised I can't comprehend such
by the way, sorry this is not related to the heading "Michael Jackson Palm" I am going off topic same as Prem. However I prefer the Michael Jackson discussions kept together here, Prem's posts being an interesting sideline.
As Lynn says earlier in page 2, I did go off track in posting some contents about MJ. But I feel in this particular topic of discussion we can go a little bit off track just to know the truth and understand the complex character of Michael Jackson.
Its been a long time I listened to MJ's songs. I liked his 75-80's songs, Thriller & Bad then from Dangerous Album onwards I lost interest in MJ's songs, since they were not like his earlier songs.
Michael Jacksons memorial service the other day I was watching till late midnight/early morning and I did feel pretty bad. And further more why I was feeling even more uncomfortable, because it is being said that Michael Jackson's body was burried without his brain. It seems the doctor's gave the option to wait for 2-3 weeks till the analyzing results/reports of the brain come in or just go ahead with the burial ceremony without the brain. The later part did not go well with me. I think Modern Evolving Christianity belief give's permission to burn the body (also), but very few people opt for this option. (Correct me if I am wrong)
I personally feel that when a persons body undergoes an autopsy examination that body should not be buried and instead it shoud be burnt, since it does not go on well with the mythological teachings and belief's about the reason for burying the body.
And lastly I think "Can you feel it" the starting theme of narration and the similar kind of Arizona mountain background could have been to a more extent inspired by Quincy Jones. This is because Quincy Jones was part of Michael Jackson team since 77-78. Try to recollect Mackennas Gold (1969) and the title music Ol Turkey Buzzard which was composed by Quincy Jones 
I think we are reaching to the end of the discussion of this post. I noticed in this forum that if it is an interesting topic, then the discussion goes on to 4-5 pages and not more than that. The views of different people were very informative :thumbup
Last edited on Thu Jul 9th, 2009 07:51 am by rain
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