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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Manfred wrote: Dear seawaves,
you wrote:
"There is absolutlely no indication on her hand that she would have a short life."
I don`t agree with you.
As I mentioned before, the Mercury line crosses the life line at the exact date of her death - the print was taken some years before she died.
This is what Cheiro said as one possibility of a characteristic death feature. I found this interesting, because I didn't believe in that before.
All in all is the print not really good enough to go more in the details.
I don't have very much experience with death marks who died some years later after taking their prints, but it was also interesting for me to find similar significant marks on the life lines of my father and a friend, who died some years later after taking their prints and at the same time mark I found and could measure after.
Manfred
Hi Manfred,
I just re-read this discussion and your contribution. Regarding Cheiro's comment:
If you didn't believe Cheiro before you saw Benazir Bhutto's hand ... so far your 'evidence' appears to be only one single case; as long as the 'evidence' is limited to one single case ... your observation can easily be explained as an example of 'coincidence'.
I hope you recognize my point here - 'one swallow doesn't make a summer'
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
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Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Martijn,
I have absolutely no problem with your comment, because on the field of chirology I'm more interested in (spiritual) insights than in believes.
My point was only: If I read it first in Cheiro's book, I had very strong daubts that it could be but in the meantime I found more than one excample, as I wrote you before: In the hands of B. Bhutto, A. Einstein, my father and in the hand of my friend = are four swallows...and I'll look further.
Manfred
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Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Ok, regarding the hands of Einstein could you specify your comment? Which hand? And what line precisely do you have in mind?
In Bhutto's hand it quite easy to find the line you're talking about (point 8: the line appears to end in the life line), but in Einstein's case I can not find a likewise strong line ending in the life line.
Manfred, I am looking forward to hear more specified details about your observations!
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
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seawaves
Registered Member
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Hi Manfred
By the way, what is this Spritual aspect of Cheiro.
regards
Atul
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Let I and you unite like two rays of sun,which unite to give more light to the world.
Seawaves
Site : http://www.paybackpalmistry.com
Blog : wildstud.blogspot.com
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Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Hy Martijn,
I ment the cutting line in A.E. right hand.
To Seawaves: I'm interested in spiritual insights in general.
Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
palmistry with Western astrology:
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25th, 2009 02:52 pm |
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36th Post |
hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Manfred,
Where exactly do you see that "the Mercury line crosses the life line" in Albert Einstein's right hand?
(Sorry, so far I can not find such a line - nor a likewise line as is present in the hand of Benazir Bhutto)
Albert Einstein's hand:
Last edited on Thu Jul 9th, 2009 02:00 pm by hand_research
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
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* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25th, 2009 04:28 pm |
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37th Post |
Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Matijn,
I'm always hoping that sometimes we'll find a theme that is very short to discuss, because it's always a challenge of my pacient.
Now here we have a complexe theme, too.
The appearences of Mercury lines are very different. A stright and clear line running up to the M. mount is rare (chronologically I read the line (in contradiction to Cheiro) from below up to the Mercury finger/mount. Mostly I find in hands only branches or incomplete lines.
Because of this I read that line running through the lower Venus mount of A.E. right hand as a possible lower/lowest part of a Merkury line. This has very different meanings at the same time - please spare it to me to write about it - , including the one I wrote about to you.
I the hand of B.B.there is a similar (not the same, because only cutting and not runnign along inside) lower part of an Merkury line cutting her life line that has also the meaning I wrote to you.
Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
palmistry with Western astrology:
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http://www.handlesen.de
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25th, 2009 04:50 pm |
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38th Post |
hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Ok Manfred,
Now I at least understand which line you have in mind!
By the way, is that line really a Mercurius line? Or maybe a Via Lasciva: last year there was a discussion about the Via Lasciva: http://www.internationalcollegeofpalmistry.com/forum/forum126/3118.html .
(Looking at the A.E.'s left hand: I would prefer to say it is a Via Lasciva - for the left hand shows a longer stronger line in that region of the hand; and in both hands of A.E. the line is more directed to zone BELOW the mount of Mercurius)
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25th, 2009 05:43 pm |
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39th Post |
Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Martijn,
sorry that I can give only short answers, I have a lot of work to do and just running out of the office.
I think, the (unconscious) Mercury line is the worsest described line in the palmistry books and was/it's really hard to research its meanings (may be only for me).
In AE. right hand I count this branche definitely to Mercury (starting inside, going to in direction to M.....).
In his left, if we look exact, we see three lines round the lower Venus.
I think you mean the lowest, deepest down and this I would count as a Via lasciva also very bad described in the books). It starts here outside the life line.
Manfred
Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 12:03 pm by Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
palmistry with Western astrology:
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http://www.handlesen.de
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 12:04 pm |
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40th Post |
Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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In addition:
The interpretation of the minor lines is always very special and the simple assignment (here) to Mercury and Via lasciva is a little bit inexact. I interpret those and similar line much more individual because the ordinary asssignment or names are only a vague clue.
Manfred
Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 12:04 pm by Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
palmistry with Western astrology:
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http://www.handlesen.de
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 07:10 am |
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41st Post |
GM
Professional Hand Analyst
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My dear friends
With due respect , I will differ that death is indicated in hands or meeting point of the Mecury and life lines ,as claimed by Chiero, is the death point of anyone.
Actually,about 40 % people in most parts of the globe die around this age so this average substantiates this view co-incidently.I have seen a number of hands where Mercury line intersects the life line from 45-55 years of thier ages but the people were alive even after 80.
Secondly.I think the line of Mercury has starting from the base of the hand and it goes up to Mercury finger.
GM
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 03:47 pm |
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42nd Post |
hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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GM wrote: My dear friends
With due respect , I will differ that death is indicated in hands or meeting point of the Mecury and life lines ,as claimed by Chiero, is the death point of anyone.
Actually,about 40 % people in most parts of the globe die around this age so this average substantiates this view co-incidently.I have seen a number of hands where Mercury line intersects the life line from 45-55 years of thier ages but the people were alive even after 80.
Secondly.I think the line of Mercury has starting from the base of the hand and it goes up to Mercury finger.
GM
:thumbup
Thank you GM,
I would like to confirm your argument as a valid argument: we definitely agree on this point.
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
* Palmistry books TOP 100
* Global Palm Reader Network
* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 04:31 pm |
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43rd Post |
Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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...As a researcher I'm interested from a unprejudiced point of view: Members what have you by experience really obeserved and found out about the meaning of the Mercury line cutting the life line?
Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
palmistry with Western astrology:
Counsellings, articles and more.
http://www.handlesen.de
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:19 pm |
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44th Post |
GM
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear friends
I think no one is prejudiced here in palimistry( to the best of my knowledge) as palmist is only a palmist when he/she reads hands and if he is prejudiced then he is not a true palmist to depend on! I say honestly what I feel and at times my friends do not agree with me.I really love and appreciate such contradidtory opinions beacuse it has been a great learning for me.
GM
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:47 pm |
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45th Post |
Manfred
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear GM,
I think you misunderstood me.
It was not my intention to write that you have prejudices. I also trust your perceptions that not everyone dies who's Mercury line cuts the life line. But I'm very interested in any concrete experience with the effect of this.
Manfred
Last edited on Mon Mar 30th, 2009 07:16 pm by Manfred
____________________
Manfred Magg
certified Astrologist DAV.
Hand and Horoscope - The art of combining
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http://www.handlesen.de
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 07:04 am |
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46th Post |
GM
Professional Hand Analyst
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Dear Friend Manfred
It's no problem at all as I do not have any negative thing in my mind and I do respect you .I admit I learn a lot from you.
Murtaza
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Ghulam Murtaza ( GM )
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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Manfred wrote: ...As a researcher I'm interested from a unprejudiced point of view: Members what have you by experience really obeserved and found out about the meaning of the Mercury line cutting the life line?
Manfred
Hi Manfred,
I hope your request will create a bit more new response in this discussion. Thanks for posting this request!
Martijn.
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
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* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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happyman
New Community Member
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Just thought of bringing the discussion up,
Micheal's palm could be one more evidence for substantiating about the mercury line crossing the life line and death !!!!!!
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shahid ali
Registered Member
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Hi
I am sure, you are right because the handprint shown here is not of B. Bhutto.
When i had gone through the existing image on net around couple of months ago, was shocked. Because i have gone through a hand photo impression in an urdu daily of the lady some years back which infact is totally different. She had very sharp and clear lines there.
She had clear lines of Life, brain, heart and luck lines especially.
Special things which were noticed in her hand both deep/clear lines starting near the wrist goes to jupiter mount without any break.
Take care
Shahid
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Shahid Ali
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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shahid ali wrote: Hi
I am sure, you are right because the handprint shown here is not of B. Bhutto.
When i had gone through the existing image on net around couple of months ago, was shocked. Because i have gone through a hand photo impression in an urdu daily of the lady some years back which infact is totally different. She had very sharp and clear lines there.
She had clear lines of Life, brain, heart and luck lines especially.
Special things which were noticed in her hand both deep/clear lines starting near the wrist goes to jupiter mount without any break.
Take care
Shahid
Hello Shahid Ali,
A while ago a few (very) experienced people at this forum did some research on the Benazir Bhutto handprint ... by making a comparison with a series of hand photos of Benazir Bhutto, and they found that there is no reason at all to question the authenticity of the handprint.
(You can read some details earlier in this discussion - some people who questioned the palmprint made some very basic mistakes, for example by looking at photos of her right hand)
So, please re-start you research on this topic ... and if you find any HARD evidence, please feel free to share those photo materials with us for consideration.
Martijn.
PS. In general, descriptions from our memories are not very usefull in any kind of serious palmistry- or hand research.
And by the way, for your information: the handprint was presented by a reliable source from the UK - the author of the article: UK palmist T. Stokes.
Sorry, right now I can not present a very good photo of her LEFT hand (Far most of the photos on the internet concern her RIGHT HAND - while the palmprint is her LEFT hand).
Last edited on Thu Jul 9th, 2009 02:49 pm by hand_research
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
* Palmistry books TOP 100
* Global Palm Reader Network
* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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happyman wrote: Just thought of bringing the discussion up,
Micheal's palm could be one more evidence for substantiating about the mercury line crossing the life line and death !!!!!!
I agree that it is an option, but I disagree that Michael Jackson's hands actually 'substantiate' that theory. Again, one needs to collect a representative series of materials ... before one can 'test' the theory.
Making a collection of hands that confirm the theory ... is like making a 'selffulfilling prophecy' ... !!! 
I hope this makes sense for you??? For, then you will easily understand that Michael's hands do not "prove" anything at all!
And I would like to remind you to GM's argument in his post at 'Mon Mar 30th, 2009 09:10 am':
"I will differ that death is indicated in hands or meeting point of the Mecury and life lines ,as claimed by Chiero, is the death point of anyone.
Actually,about 40 % people in most parts of the globe die around this age so this average substantiates this view co-incidently.I have seen a number of hands where Mercury line intersects the life line from 45-55 years of thier ages but the people were alive even after 80."
PS. One should always realise that people jump easily into conclusions without a thorough consideration of the details ... tonight I presented another example of this in the 'Michael Jackson Palm' discussion.
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
* Palmistry books TOP 100
* Global Palm Reader Network
* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 03:18 am |
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52nd Post |
| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 09:10 am |
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53rd Post |
GM
Professional Hand Analyst
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Hi Shahid
Does the Mercury line emerge from the base of palm or from mount of Mercury??Do you believe that death is indicated in palms??
GM
Last edited on Fri Jul 10th, 2009 09:12 am by GM
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 11:03 am |
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54th Post |
shahid ali
Registered Member
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Respected GM
I think it is from the mount of mercury. I believe death can be read through the subject.
Regards
Shahid Ali
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Shahid Ali
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 12:56 pm |
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55th Post |
| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 03:45 pm |
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56th Post |
hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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happyman wrote: Thanks for correcting me Martijn.
Realized my mistake >
Ok, thanks for your response!
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
* Palmistry books TOP 100
* Global Palm Reader Network
* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 07:18 am |
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57th Post |
shahid ali
Registered Member
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Hi Martijin and All
Please find herewith handprint of Benazir Bhutto.
Take Care
Shahid Ali
Attachment: BN Bhutto.jpg (Downloaded 235 times)
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Shahid Ali
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 11:34 am |
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58th Post |
| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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59th Post |
CONFUCES
Registered Member
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Dear Friends,
I have a book written by M.A.Malik. printed in 1990.
Mr. Malik has printed a sketch of Benazir,s right hand.
Book title: "HAATH KI ZABAAN" (Language of Hand)
Chapter: 16 (last)
page:407
Interestingly,the sketch very much resembles the photo posted above by Shahid Ali.
(please remember that Mr.Malik claims that he has personally read Benazir,s hand twice).
Apart from above,Please have a look at the length of life line ( in the Benazir's right hand photos posted by Martijn).
I do not know whether she was right handed or left handed. M.A.Malik has only printed her right hand and has given reading based on that only.
Any consideration of "changes in lines" over the period of time?
CONFUCES
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 07:26 pm |
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60th Post |
hand_research
Professional Hand Analyst
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CONFUCES wrote: Dear Friends,
I have a book written by M.A.Malik. printed in 1990.
Mr. Malik has printed a sketch of Benazir,s right hand.
Book title: "HAATH KI ZABAAN" (Language of Hand)
Chapter: 16 (last)
page:407
Interestingly,the sketch very much resembles the photo posted above by Shahid Ali.
(please remember that Mr.Malik claims that he has personally read Benazir,s hand twice).
Apart from above,Please have a look at the length of life line ( in the Benazir's right hand photos posted by Martijn).
I do not know whether she was right handed or left handed. M.A.Malik has only printed her right hand and has given reading based on that only.
Any consideration of "changes in lines" over the period of time?
CONFUCES
:thumbup
That's very specific info!
Confuces, great that your were able to reveal to us the (likely) source of the picture.
With you info I decided to make a 300% ZOOM of the best picture of Benazir Bhutto's right hand ... and surprise, suprise:
While initially I thought Mr. Shahid Ali's photo did not show much common features with the photos I had found ... after making the 300% ZOOM I think I am willing to confirm that the picture from Mr. Malik's book indeed shows SOME SIMILARITIES with Benazir Bhutto's hand photo ... !? (Though I am not 100% sure)
PS. But again ... we should never try to research the authenticity of a left handprints with photos of a right hand! (As was suggest by Shalid Ali).
By the way ... Mr Shalid Ali, is this picture from Mr. Malik's book?
(And what did he do with this pictures ... the quality is very poor and the lines look a bit 'unnatural', did Mr. Malik put pen-marks in the photo to MARK the hand lines??? - If so ... then I think he has sort of 'screwed-up' his photo! - But I am not sure, maybe I am wrong about the 'unnatural hand lines'!?):
300% ZOOM of Benazir Bhutto's right hand:
Benazir Bhutto's right hand (the original):
Attachment: benazir-bhutto-300%.jpg (Downloaded 106 times) Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 10:44 am by hand_research
____________________
Martijn van Mensvoort - http://www.handresearch.com
You can find on my website e.g.:
* A Scientific Palm Reading Course
* Palmistry websites TOP 100
* Palmistry books TOP 100
* Global Palm Reader Network
* And ... the Latest News about Hands!
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